Episode 33: Championing Cleveland: Marketing Strategies & Economic Impacts with David Gilbert

00:00
Lisa Perry Kovacs
The world of digital marketing moves at a dizzying speed. Strategies, budgets, tactics, buzzwords. How can we even begin to distinguish the signal from the noise, the good moves from the bad? Take it from the team that's tripped. As much as we've triumphed, we're putting our best moves in the spotlight and spilling every secret to give you step by step instructions to deal for your own success and digitally scale your business. This is marketing Moves.

00:33
Ashtyn Morris
Welcome to another episode of Marketing Moves. I am your host, Ashton Morris, senior account executive at Vividfront. Today we're talking about all of my favorite things, marketing, sports, and, of course, Cleveland. Today's special guest is David Gilbert, president and CEO of Destination Cleveland and the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission. David leads one of the most dynamic and impactful nonprofit organizations in northeast Ohio. If you've never heard of it, the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission has served to improve the economy and community of greater Cleveland through the attraction and creation of significant sporting and competitive events. Similarly, through Destination Cleveland, David is responsible for carrying out the organization's mission to drive economic impact and stimulate the community by positioning and promoting Cleveland as an exciting, vibrant destination.

01:23
Ashtyn Morris
We're so excited to have him on today to learn more about the ins and outs of effectively marketing Cleveland to major sporting and competitive decision makers and stakeholders, along with learning about the economic impact these opportunities bring. David, welcome to marketing moves.

01:38
David Gilbert
Thanks, Ashton. Thanks for having me.

01:40
Ashtyn Morris
Of course, one of my favorite parts of hosting marketing moves is I get to bring on some pretty incredible people with awesome stories. Before jumping into your work with Greater Cleveland Sports Commission in Destination ClevelAnd, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your story?

01:54
David Gilbert
I grew up here, grew up east side suburbs, went all the way through Cleveland Heights schools. I've always just loved Cleveland. I was away for school a couple years after, always wanted to come back. And I'm very fortunate that my career hadn't been planned this way initially. But my career's been involved in organizations trying to help grow Cleveland and fortunate I have a marketing background, always love sports, a sports background. It's been amazing to be able to tie those together and do it in a way that tries to help my community, love my family, try to spend as much time with my family as possible. Love outdoors, love. I've always been a distance athletes, always love running, cycling and as much time outdoors as possible.

02:39
Ashtyn Morris
Well, Cleveland has the metro parks, all these great outside activities. It seems like you're in a perfect spot.

02:45
David Gilbert
Yeah, absolutely.

02:46
Ashtyn Morris
What sports did you play?

02:47
David Gilbert
Play tennis growing up. Played tennis growing up and got into sort of toward the end of high school, a lot of distance athletics. So for 30 years, ran 30 plus marathons and ultra marathons, got into triathlons for a long time, still do a lot of cycling. And last couple of years have gotten very into pickleball, which has been really a lot of fun to get back into something really competitive.

03:08
Ashtyn Morris
I love that I play tennis my whole life and definitely trying to get back into tennis and pick up pickleball. It's a little easier on the body, it is no doubt about it, than the tennis court. How did you get involved with the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission and Destination Cleveland?

03:21
David Gilbert
After college, I had a job where I traveled for a couple of years, came back town, had an events background through some internships and some other work, and ultimately started working for a smaller nonprofit called North Coast harbor, managing the downtown lakefront development, now where the Rock hall is, and Science Center, Voynovich park. First doing their event season and then doing all their marketing and fundr aising, ultimately running the organization, and then had an interesting opportunity to join what was called convention and Visitors Bureau, what's now called Destination Cleveland. Same organization. And through that was asked to develop a business model for a new sports commission in Cleveland.

04:02
David Gilbert
There had been an attempt back in the mid nineties to start one, hadn't quite gotten off the ground and was, quite frankly, not something I was thinking of doing, but was asked then to leave the convention bureau to start and run. It was really a startup nonprofit. There were two of us. We did have some great people, great corporate leaders who are going to head the board, and really fun to grow something from scratch. And it was sort of when the sports commission industry was really just getting going. It's now 25 years ago, never thought I'd be doing something that long. And then about ten years in, was also asked to run destination Cleveland.

04:39
David Gilbert
So it's a unique setup that I run these two separate nonprofits, although they're very complimentary, but they're separate staff, separate boards, separate funding, and I feel very fortunate to do it. And they're both, knock on wood, really great, healthy organizations and able to make an impact on the future of Cleveland.

05:01
Ashtyn Morris
Wow, that's amazing. Especially you are booked and busy.

05:04
David Gilbert
It seems like it's very busy. Managing the calendar is a big part of every day, but great team, great boards for both organizations. And so that allows me to do both, quite frankly.

05:19
Ashtyn Morris
It's amazing. So one of the main talking points we'd like to cover in this episode is the role that sports, particularly sporting events, play. In the economic development of cities. We're particularly interested in learning about the marketing that goes into attracting major sporting events to Cleveland and how your position as president and CEO plays a key role in this. For our listeners who may not know much about the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission and destination Cleveland, can you give us a brief overview of your organization's missions and purpose?

05:49
David Gilbert
Yeah. So first I'll start with destination Cleveland, then transition a little bit to sports commission because we'll be talking more about that. Destination Cleveland is what's called either a convention visitors bureau or a destination marketing organization. The best way to think about it is the region's consumer marketing entity. We're a nonprofit organization. We're funded through a hotel occupancy tax, which is pretty much every community in this country has a similar organization. They're all funded in a similar way. And our job is to get more of the visitor dollar here than our competitive set. And so we, most of our work is really done outside the region.

06:29
David Gilbert
We have about 60 staff members doing a whole set focused on marketing communications, a whole set focused on sales, meetings, conventions, sales and services, and then a lot focused on sort of visitor experience and knock on wood, done very well. Prior to Covid, we had nine straight years where the growth in the number of visitors to Cleveland for leisure travel, business travel, meetings, conventions grew faster than the national average. We really are a tourist town, largely a drive market. We're not competing against Las Vegas orlando or, but, you know, we are competing every day against Pittsburgh and Columbus and Cincinnati and Detroit and those types of markets and do very well. Sports Commission, also a nonprofit, is really focused on attracting and managing sporting events to be used as an economic development tool.

07:22
David Gilbert
And sports are very different, unique animal in the whole ecosystem of visitors in that most sporting events that come town, they really are looking and need to do it well, partners to help them run and manage the event. At least that's what our business model is focused on, where most. If you have the Ohio Music Educators association that decides to come to Cleveland, they really don't need much from destination Cleveland. It's sort of some thinner services where sports, much of what sports commission does is focused on operations and services that make the event better. Whether it's everything from marketing communications to facilities to ticket sales to operations, anything and everything an event may need, we will do for them at no cost. But it gives us a real unique advantage of Cleveland being chosen far more often than other cities.

08:20
Ashtyn Morris
Wow. I did not know the ins and outs of that. That is amazing. Are there any other cities that have something similar to greater Cleveland? Sports commissions.

08:28
David Gilbert
So there's a national association of sports commissions called Sports ETA. There's probably 200 plus cities around the country that are members. So it's a very competitive industry. But there are probably only 30 to 40 cities that have, I'd say, larger, full service, independent sports commissions like ours. Thankfully, over the last probably ten to twelve years, Cleveland consistently ranks as one of the top small handful of cities every year in all the measures in our industry, number of events hosted, size scale, economic impact. And we do. It's interesting. We have 15 full time people, a few part time, a lot of interns as well, and we're probably one of the three or four largest of our kind in the country. So they're not traditionally huge organizations, but even that size allows us to provide a lot of services.

09:20
David Gilbert
But, you know, there are a lot of really good cities. Kansas City is a big competitor, does a great job. Columbus, Ohio, is a very good sports commission. Tampa, there's a number of cities out there that, you know, in my estimation, also do a really good job. And for the sports commission, our number one metric is economic impact, which really is outside spending spent in Cleveland that otherwise wouldn't have been here. And that's. And we don't use any multipliers, but that's how we measure the success. We do some other things, we do some youth programming some other things, but really it is focused on sports as economic development.

09:59
Ashtyn Morris
Awesome. So, as president and CEO, what are some of your major responsibilities to help your organization achieve its goals and stay accountable to really generating more of that economic impact?

10:09
David Gilbert
I think it's a handful of things. I think, one, you have to keep maintaining the vision of the organization. You really have to keep seeing the big picture of how what we do as an organization fits into this community. It's critical that in my position, working with, we have an unbelievable board, large board, a lot of c level folks in corporate sports media, how to consistently engaging them in the work. So we expand the network of what we do, how we get integrated into the fabric of the community, so how we can help others, but also we get a lot of help from others in our ability to do what we do for our clients. I think it's trying to stay ahead of the industry. It's a very competitive industry, like many others, always evolving. And I think also staying focused.

11:04
David Gilbert
We get asked to do a lot of things. People don't know exactly what we do. So I say, well, if it's in sports, you ought to be doing it. We're a small organization with a relatively small budget, small staff, and we have to stay really focused on our mission. And that means sometimes saying no the right way. You have to say it so people can understand why, hey, we may not be able to do this thing, we may not be able to support a certain thing. Cause it really isn't our mission. And our mission ultimately is. Is to grow the economy and image of this community by the hosting of major events. That's what we do. We measure.

11:41
David Gilbert
Our biggest measures are how many events we have hosted, which, since we started now has been about 140 events that have actually, sorry, about 240 events that have been hosted in Cleveland strictly because of our efforts. And we've been some form of management or financial partner in. And the economic impact which is now approaching, we're at about $950 million in direct impact. That had not been for those events, which had not been here due to our work, wouldn't have been in Cleveland. So if it doesn't fit into those things, oftentimes it's hard to say no. We want to help this community. It's why we exist. But a big part of the job is staying focused. And ultimately, for me, it's. It's bringing our team the resources they need to do their job well.

12:30
Ashtyn Morris
Wow. I mean, that's amazing. All the work you guys do makes me think of the quote. My dad always tells me, the most powerful word in the english language is no. Sometimes you have to say no, and it's hard to have those conversations. But ultimately, you're working towards that goal and want to make sure you're hyper focused on that.

12:46
David Gilbert
It's true. I think there's. The key with that is, I think we always try to go with the attitude of say yes unless there's a reason you can't or shouldn't, instead of the answer immediately being no, unless I have to. Because we ask so much back of people in the community, people, organizations, people that support us. Oftentimes we have to go out and raise a lot of money. You know, we just hosted the NCAA women's final four. We had to raise about two and a half million dollars to fulfill the community obligations. We didn't keep any of that money. All the money that we'll get the impact back, but probably it'll be 30 plus million dollars that came back and spending that went to businesses in the community. The impact was about Cleveland's. Cleveland's image being enhanced. We had 30,000 people visiting Cleveland.

13:36
David Gilbert
All those things we don't see as an organization a penny of that yet. We have to go out. Our job is to ask a lot of people for their help to make it happen. So we try to say yes whenever we can. But to your point, if you have to say no, at least ideally you get people walking away understanding why you need to say no. And oftentimes that is about just staying focused. Because we have to stay focused on our mission.

14:02
Ashtyn Morris
Absolutely. So if people don't know Cleveland has three major sports teams, the Guardians, the Cavs and the Browns, which not all cities can tout. We've already proven ourselves in the sports world. From this perspective, when your team is pitching us to different decision makers or having some of those tough conversations in the sports world, how do you leverage this to really position us as the destination for their major sporting event?

14:28
David Gilbert
I think there's a handful of things. I think us being a great sports town in general is always helpful. I think if unaided. When you ask people and destination, Cleveland does a lot of research on this. Of people's perception of Cleveland, we tend to be ranked unaided as a big sports town. In part. We're the smallest market in the country by quite a wide margin. To have MBA, NFL, and Major League Baseball, the three top professional sports part of that is goes back to Cleveland was a top eight or ten market in the country when those happened. Actually probably a top six market in the country back 50, 60 years ago. We're now, I think we're 17th or 18th. Part of it is so much of the population in the community has moved south or west, and it just.

15:13
David Gilbert
We aren't nearly as growing an area as some of big cities in the south and west. So we tend to overindex in our reputation and for good reason. As a sports town, I think we always partner a lot with the professional teams because we work with them, utilizing their facilities as part of hosting events. We don't really get involved in the business of the Cavs or the Browns or the Guardians, but we work so closely with them. I mean, the number of events we host at Rocket Mortgage Field House tends to be multiple every year. Done a lot of things at Brown Stadium, at Progressive Field. I think where we tend to do extremely well is that whole notion of our community embracing events.

16:04
David Gilbert
We always talk internally about wrapping the community around events we think as good or better than any other city in the country. And we think Cleveland because sometimes we still battle a reputation issue around the country from things that are couple generations old aren't really relevant anymore. But perception can be reality. We end up really putting our focus on being able to provide more services than anybody in the country. So oftentimes when an event chooses Cleveland, be it a major event like NFL draft, NBA all star game, women's Final Four, or the world yo championship, or a big youth volleyball tournament, take your pick. It's because we provide more services.

16:51
David Gilbert
We make their event better, we make their business better, and we have to really understand intuitively what it does to make their event better, and then how we, as an organization, and by extension the community, can bring that to bear. So we could do that better than any other city in the country.

17:08
Ashtyn Morris
I also feel like there's probably some logistical things people might not think about, is, if you're trying to attract these major events, whether they be professional or youth volleyball tournaments, you need to make sure that there's enough housing. Not. Maybe not housing, but, you know, hotels, the whole experience, it comes down to it. You don't want to bring someone to a city, and they have to drive 40 minutes outside downtown to find food or somewhere to stay. There's a lot that goes into it that I feel like your team really has to figure out.

17:36
David Gilbert
Very much so. And it's not only figuring out. Oftentimes it's doing it for us. It's not just enough to tell somebody, hey, we have the right housing here. It is. Our job is to say, let us help you book the hotels. Let us get you great discounts, whatever it is you need. We look at all of these events we've hosted. Every one of them is some kind of competitive process, some kind of competitive bid process. Sometimes we're competing against two cities, sometimes we're competing against 22 cities for the rights to host an event. And usually what will happen is the NCAA or an Olympic governing body or the NBA or whoever it might be, they will have some sort of document, some sort of. Usually an RFP, where they will say, this is what we need from a city.

18:28
David Gilbert
We think our job is to. We always talk internally about reading between the lines so they may tell you, here's specifically what we're looking for. You know, we need to know we can get this type of facility, these hotels, these types of amenities. You know, maybe it's this type of airlift or whatever. Whatever they might need from a city. We try to. We try to get in between and sort of get in their heads, if we can, to say, how do you measure success? So if you're going to leave a community, how do you measure whether your event was successful? And then what can we as an organization and by extension with a lot of help from the community, what can we bring to the table to help you make it more successful?

19:10
David Gilbert
Because oftentimes what's in that proposal we think of internally as check the box items. So they might say we need x type of facility, we may have it, we may not. At the end of the day, if they're looking for it, we're not going to change it. If they need a 5000 seat arena, we don't have that. And that event likely is never going to come to Cleveland. If they need a great MBA arena, we sure as heck have that. And a lot of those in their RFP are really check the box items. What we want to know is what are the things you haven't really talked about that we think we can bring to the table that other cities simply can't? And we think that's a little bit of the secret sauce of why Cleveland continues to be one of the top cities.

19:53
David Gilbert
It's not just choosing Cleveland as a city that works for them. It's also choosing our organization and all of the partner organizations in the community, public, private, civic, our relationships with the mayor and the county executive, all these folks that will say, here's what we're going to help you do to make that event say yes to Cleveland. What can we deliver as a community more than what they ask for?

20:19
Ashtyn Morris
It's really building that Cleveland narrative between the lines 100%, which is key. You've already touched on this a little bit, but we've hosted some amazing events, NFL draft, NBA All Star game, tennis and the land and the 2024 women's NCAA Final Four tournament, just to name a few. As someone who's lived in Cleveland throughout all of this, it's been really cool to see this all take shape and it feels like there's a lot of energy amongst the city. Can you give us some insights on the events leading up to landing the final four tournament this past year? What's this bidding process like?

20:53
David Gilbert
You know? So for that one, the event took place in 24, were awarded the event, we started that bid in 2018, were awarded the event in 2019. So a long way out and what the NCAA does in that case. They were bidding out four years of the women's Final four. If I remember right, it was 2122-2324 I might have that off by a year. And there were, I'd have to guess, probably a dozen and a half cities that bid. And it was about a overall, about a year long process. So you first you submit a bid, thats pretty thick document. And for womens final four, theres an awful lot that goes into it in terms of a lot of logistics, a budget, those kinds of things. They then narrowed that down, did updates of proposals, site visits.

21:44
David Gilbert
Ultimately, they had, I think it was eight cities that presented to the womens final four or to the NCAA womens basketball committee. And we had, you know, again, had to prepare a, you know, sort of a lights out presentation. It was very, you know, you only get a certain number of people, certain amount of time, and we had to be very strategic in who we are bringing from the committee, who is going to present what we could present that maybe would go above and beyond what they were asking for. And then also, once you get awarded, which is great, you also have to sign a contract that commits to a lot of funding. And in most cases, and women's final four washington. The case with this, it was about two and a half million dollars.

22:28
David Gilbert
You don't write the NCAA a check, but there are significant number of commitments the community makes. We always call them community obligations. Could be anything from marketing and signage and housing and transportation, all kinds of things that you agree not only to pay for, but to run and manage. And our organization, we're a small nonprofit, but in Cleveland, we end up being the ones that sign those contracts. So we have to be very careful. So we signed on the bottom line to be responsible for not only raising that two and a half million dollars, and if we ran short, we're the ones on the hook for it as a smaller nonprofit, but then to run and manage it. Now, thankfully, a great partnership.

23:13
David Gilbert
So while we managed the whole process out of our office, rocket, mortgage, field house, and the Cavs mid american conference were also, the three of us were the primary partners. But you had city of Cleveland, destination Cleveland, downtown Cleveland Alliance. A whole mess of other organizations that got involved, did their part, and it was critically successful, but we had to start a long time out. So you're awarded the event five years out. You start some of the work probably about two years out. You're only working in earnest. You're sending teams. When went the year before to Dallas, we probably had 20 of us that traveled to the women's final four the year before to watch everything they did with a critical eye, get a behind the scenes tour.

23:58
David Gilbert
And, you know, we had full time staff working on it, probably starting 18 months out that were working full time, you know, around the clock on just that one event.

24:09
Ashtyn Morris
Wow. I had a feeling it would obviously be years in advance, but that's a lot that goes into it. But it couldn't have been more of an iconic final four. And also to that weekend as well, with the solar, it was all the stars aligned for Cleveland.

24:23
David Gilbert
It was almost magical for the city. I've been fortunate to be around a lot of big events that have been here. And again, we sort of made our own luck by all the hard work of getting women's fauna four, planning it. But just to be at least the crest of this wave of women's basketball, women's sports, the whole Caitlin Clark phenomenon, and the fact that Iowa did make it here, that, you know, all the teams that we had to have, you know, South Carolina and UConn, I mean, it was iconic. And then, obviously, to have the eclipse that next day, opening day, I mean, it was. It really was magical.

25:07
Ashtyn Morris
Special. No, it was cool. I mean, obviously, our office is downtown. And I remember I was walking to restore, and I walked past NC State. They had their bus, the final four bus. And it just, as someone who loves sports, it was so cool just to see all of the hype. And there was really that energy in Cleveland.

25:25
David Gilbert
I think you put it right. The energy was so different than almost anything we've hosted. I mean, you just. You could feel it. You could just feel the energy everywhere around downtown. You know, we had. We had 20,000 plus people that traveled in just for the event. And in between the games, they're looking for things to do. They are sporting their colors. And what's interesting, that event has become now, and this year really solidified it. The center of the women's sports universe. And so amazing, the number of people and organizations. It's, I think, in two ways. One, a lot of organizations involved in sport that held their meetings and other events here because they wanted and needed to be here around the women's final four.

26:14
David Gilbert
And then also the women's final four, particularly this year, really has started to take on a celebrity element a lot. Like when we had NBA all star game in the 75th, you just had lots of celebrities who were in town and people who would say, even if I don't have a ticket, I just want to be there. And that was pretty. You could feel it. It was pretty cool.

26:31
Ashtyn Morris
Absolutely. Looking ahead, there are some big time sporting events happening in Cleveland this summer. Notably, the Pan American Masters games are happening July 12 through the 21st. And as I mentioned earlier, tennis in the land, which is Cleveland's only professional women's sporting event, is happening from August 17 through the 24th. Can you talk a little bit about the role the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission has played in amplifying the messaging and marketing around these big ticket events?

26:56
David Gilbert
So it's interesting you give such a good example of sort of the spectrum of events that we are involved in. So you have tennis and land, which is owned by a great organization called Top Notch Management. They're a largely tennis focused organization. They represent players, and they bought the rights to this International Tennis Federation event, wanted to make sure it was in Cleveland, and we helped them in getting it off the ground. And they own the event. We provide some great. We run and manage all their volunteers. We do a lot of things for them to make sure they can focus on what they focus on best. And then where we can help make sure that event is here and is successful, then you have Pan Am Masters games. There is an organization called IMG, International Masters Games association, started about 35 years ago.

27:49
David Gilbert
They're based in Luzon, Switzerland, where the Olympic Committee is. They're tied in with the Olympic committee. And every year around the globe, they host what the basic way to think about is the world Masters Olympics. First time it's ever been in the US. And in that case. So we're having. It starts in about three weeks. We'll have about 4000 athletes, 20 sports coming from 77 nationalities, 48 states, and anybody can enter. But it's. So. It's highly competitive, but anybody can enter. But in that case, we are running and managing all of it. So their entity out of Switzerland has three staff people. What we got awarded the event, we had to raise the money. It's got a $4.5 million budget. We have a core staff of 15 people.

28:35
David Gilbert
We have an additional right now, 37 staff people, in addition to our 15 just on the budget and on staff for that one event. I mean, it's logistically a little like hosting the Olympics.

28:47
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah, I was going to say it seems like it.

28:49
David Gilbert
Yeah. And so it shows that it's a huge undertaking for us to take an event like that on the. But it's one of the reasons why we are the first city in the United States to host this event. And that's a really big deal. And it will help us get other events to Cleveland because we've shown what we can do in hosting this event that in many ways we had to develop from scratch. The IMGA has a basic set of guidelines. They have a great database. So most of those people, of those 4000 athletes that are coming from over the world are through their database. We did a lot of extra marketing in the US, but it kind of shows that one really shows how the organization can stretch if needed, for hosting a major event or for an event like tennis and land.

29:37
David Gilbert
We can play very specific roles to help make sure it's successful, but we don't own it. And ultimately, the success or failure really falls on top notch management.

29:47
Ashtyn Morris
Absolutely. You've already touched on this a little bit, but can you give us some more examples of some of the positive impacts as a result of these events, particularly some of the economic impacts? Do we have any meaningful data from the NCAA Final four? I know it happened recently, but what time period do you need to really have to evaluate economically the impact?

30:08
David Gilbert
So there's one of two ways we do it, and we always do an economic impact analysis of every event. For major events like women's Final Four, we hire third party firms. There's a handful of them out there in the country that this is what they do. And usually it'll take probably in the neighborhood of 90 to 120 days to get the full report back. In part, they come into town, they do a lot of surveying. We started to see some of the non economic data from the NCAA related to visitor experience and all that. In fact, just got some of it today. Really cool to see. We expect in the next 30 days or so we'll have a full economic impact analysis. Our initial estimate, based on past studies was it would have about a $22 million impact in.

30:53
David Gilbert
In direct new dollars spent in the community. Based on how the event grew since were awarded the event five years before, it's likely it'll exceed 30 million, which is great. And then otherwise, for smaller events, there is a. Through our national association, there is a nationally adopted economic impact calculator that's been done through some universities that has dozens of different inputs, but all related to trying to make your best estimate of outside spending. And that's usually on number of people from out of market that are visiting, what type of event, how long they're here. There are differences in types of events. A youth event is different than a masters event.

31:38
David Gilbert
A lot has to do with an event like women's final four had a lot of outside spending on sponsorship and people from outside the market that brought dollars in to put on the event. An event like the world Yo championship doesn't have that much in that regard. But for every single event where we have an economic impact analysis, which is what we've hosted, we have in a file. So if anyone ever asks, we can pull out, say, here's exactly how we calculated it, and we don't use any multipliers. We try to be very conservative, but it's definitely not just. I bet that's $2 million. We have very specific, because we don't want to ever be accused of somehow or another making up numbers of what something might be worth to the community.

32:24
Ashtyn Morris
Wow. No, that makes total sense. Seems like you have the process down pretty. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. How do you evaluate some of those intangibles, though? Such as the general satisfaction felt amongst people in Cleveland? I know you said surveys, but do you do anything else to kind of see how everyone was feeling post event or during the events?

32:41
David Gilbert
You know, we've done that at times for some of those major events. We'll do some studies on perceptions of locals about the event, and certainly at times, perceptions of people from outside the market, what they thought of Cleveland before and after, because we're a market where perception is really important and change of perception is important. We like to have an idea of if and how an event changed perception of people who are here. Some of it is anecdotal, you know, when, you know, we just know there are. That locals were pretty damn proud that we hosted the women's final four, and so excited and proud that it was in their community. And, you know, and here's the thing, Ashton, most events. So, on average, we will host, let's call it a dozen national events a year. This year is 18.

33:31
David Gilbert
Next year, we're already at 15. It's actually growing. Five years ago is probably eight to ten. The majority of them. Most people don't hear about or know, you know, in sports now, we think of, like, our bread and butter as singles and doubles. So when we're hosting, you know, we have six large. This year, youth volleyball tournaments filled up every square inch of our convention center, especially during winter months. Filled up almost every downtown hotel. When those hotels are starving for business, huge amounts of money. You don't read about that in the paper. We just hosted NCAA Division three baseball championship.

34:09
Ashtyn Morris
Wow.

34:09
David Gilbert
Just a few weeks ago at Lake county captain Stadium, the same week, we hosted a major USA wrestling event. Their world team trials at Spire Institute out in Ashtabula had about 1200 athletes, plus their friends, family, coaches. Most of those things bring in millions of dollars at a time, but aren't ones that most people read about, aren't ones that people are gonna thump their chest about in Cleveland because they're not sort of sexy events, if you will. I mean, if you're a wrestling fan, you know about it if you're in baseball, you know about it. People say, oh, wow, d three baseball. Pretty cool. It's here. So those big events are the ones that people know about. They're the ones that get people really excited. Next year we have men's basketball 1st, 2nd round taking place.

34:59
David Gilbert
We have the following year, NCAA Division one wrestling championship, which is a really big deal. And people tend to know more about those. But we also know that the majority of what we do, the most impactful things aren't necessarily ones that the average person in the community may know is going on in Cleveland.

35:20
Ashtyn Morris
Wow. What would you say some of the challenges we face as a city when it comes to landing some of these sporting or competitive events?

35:27
David Gilbert
There's probably three things overall, I think one, weather and it just, any northern Tier city, you're just not going to host an outdoor event in the winter. I mean, outdoor events and even for many indoor are, you know, we've got probably about a seven month window that you're really primed. Now. There are events like these youth volleyball tournaments is they love being in Cleveland in the winter months because hotel rates are so much cheaper and when you're a youth family oriented event, but the weather can be an issue. I'd say second is facilities. So we have some great facilities, some we don't have at all. And we look at our. We have a deck of cards that were dealt or a hand of cards were dealt and that's what we play and. But we don't have a soccer only stadium.

36:14
David Gilbert
There's only two top 20 markets in the country. A top 40 markets, I think, is a statistic that doesn't have a soccer only stadium. You know, ten to 20,000 seats. Hopefully we're going to have one in the next several years. But there are certain events that make total sense there financially, size wise. So let's say you get an event that has 10,000 fans. It's really hard to make an event like that work at Brown Stadium. We've done it, but it's hard to make economic sense. You could have 15,000 fans in that stadium. It still seems kind of empty. So we also don't have a small arena. We don't have a three, four, five, 6000 seat arena. Cleveland State is thinking of it that's really a right size for them. The Wollstein center is older, has 13,000 seats, so.

37:00
David Gilbert
But yet we have other great facilities. There's a lot we can make use of if we have certain other ones. So I think that can be a challenge, and then you still battle. Not nearly the way it was, say, 1520 years ago, but perception is still an issue for some people. The good news is once people come here, the perception issues go away. I mean, we know it because we live here, but we have a lot of it. Destination Cleveland does a lot of research on perception of Cleveland, and it's amazing the change in perception of Cleveland for people who've never visited versus those who have. Dramatically different. So we know all we have to do is get them here, their minds change. So usually in the process of getting an event to Cleveland, we bring people here.

37:43
David Gilbert
Either they have their own site process, or we'll say, why don't we fly you in? Let us pay to bring you in, let us pay to put you up. And usually it will change their mind. But it is something that we have to, at times, it can be another barrier to overcome. But we've absolutely been able to do that.

38:03
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah, I think there's a certain level of, if people have never been to Cleveland, it's easy to think of those stereotypes once you come and experience. We are a Midwest city in terms of we are nice, we are welcoming, very open tourists, and I think it's a great place to host events, even though we do obviously have some things we have to overcome. I definitely think we're positioning ourselves for long term success.

38:24
David Gilbert
Yeah, very much so. And I think we're seeing it in so many ways. And I also, I would say, I mean, sort of outside of all this, I think over the last several years, we've had some great new visionary leadership in a lot of new areas in Cleveland. And I think what we're going to really start seeing now with different development on our lakefront, our riverfront, the population of downtown is really growing. Some of the neighborhoods near downtown are exploding, and it's really making a difference. I really feel like when we see people that haven't been here, say, for 1012 years, and they come like, wow, this is a very different city. And I think another 1012 years from now, we're going to feel that way even more.

39:03
Ashtyn Morris
Absolutely. So a few episodes back, we actually had Gabe with Silco on who is your destination Cleveland? Social media amazing. One of my favorite episodes. We talked about all the amazing work that he is doing at Destination Cleveland to market our city via social media, which obviously translates into making our city appear more attractive to those decision makers looking to host their big name sporting events. What would you say, in your opinion, are some of the most impactful marketing channels or mediums for attracting these events?

39:33
David Gilbert
I think there's a couple. I think, one, if you look at marketing, a lot of it is direct sales. I mean, for us, it is knowing your customer. It is understanding who they are. It's understanding what they're looking for. And how do we as a product, if you want to look at Cleveland as a product, how do we as a product deliver that to them? Then I think you also have where perception is an issue, that's where the kinds of things that destination Cleveland does are so critically important. It's so critically important to the work of the sports commission and so many other entities that in one way, shape or form need to sell Cleveland. Because, you know, destination Cleveland is the organization that, again, it is the community's consumer marketing organization, plain and simple. And social is.

40:22
David Gilbert
It's how people make decisions on travel, particularly at a consumer level. And so what destination Cleveland does to create content, to utilize social media, to engage locals, to utilize their own social media, to talk about what they love most about their community, it's critical. And it really. It's why the perception of Cleveland is changing. Part of it is it's because what we're showing is the reality. The reality of what? Cleveland. Is it perfect? Of course not. You know, it's a big city with big city challenges like every other big city. But it's a pretty freaking cool place. And there's some amazing parts of this city that it's sort of that grittiness that you don't get in all places. It's very authentic. It's this really neat combination of old, unique, sort of, in some ways, dirty. History might say dirty.

41:15
David Gilbert
Just, you know, the industries that built this city 100 years ago, you know, were built on the iron and steel and manufacturing and refining. But it also created such enormous wealth. You've got incredible, beautiful old architecture. You've got some of the most amazing, truly world class institutions with Playhouse Square, with the art museum, the orchestra, a lot of these places that the billionaires of their time built these things. And so it's a really unique combination most cities can't boast. And the way to get it out there, quite frankly, is through social. And more and more social. Not just that we do as a destination Cleveland does as an organization, but what locals do within their own networks.

42:05
Ashtyn Morris
Absolutely. Can you pinpoint any marketing initiatives or maybe some campaigns that haven't performed well in the past for Greater Cleveland Sports Commission or destination Cleveland? And what are some of your biggest takeaways from those experiences?

42:21
David Gilbert
You know, it's hard to say where there's one particular campaign, in part because our work is very layered and we really don't necessarily put our eggs in the basket of one particular campaign. I will say, I think what we've learned, and again, you learn from success or failure, is we have to be authentic. I'll give you just a really good example. Most people, what we did when we created and went through the process to create really what was the first major visitor brand this community has ever had through script? Cleveland and everything around it. It's already ten years in the running and it is still going remarkably strong. It's not just about accolades in the industry. What we've built off of that brand has led to enormous success in our metrics of the number of people who visit here.

43:19
David Gilbert
But when went into that process, this was about ten years ago, we did RFP agencies around the country and everybody thought using Cleveland rocks would be what everybody pointed to. And there was a couple of agencies that did that. But through research, what one agency came back with, and ultimately MmGy Global, who's still probably the biggest destination branding firm in the world, and they're still our big national partner. They're brilliant. What they came back and said, and this was so important for us to understand, Cleveland rocks. And even ten years ago, even more because of the Drew Carey show, all these things that were ten years ago was very recognizable, but it didn't change behavior. And what we really understood is our job is to change behavior. And locals are not our customer.

44:14
David Gilbert
Our customer is people who are outside of Cleveland and getting them to consider Cleveland as a place to live and work. So while locals maybe at the time were very proud of Cleveland rocks, it's a song that people knew. It's a slogan people knew. It didn't resonate, it didn't change behavior. And I think what that's really led us to is more and more of two things. And this is learning from trial and error. One, we really need to utilize locals in their voice. We need to speak to Cleveland by what locals? Not our organization. What we think it's about locals. It's what Ashton likes best. It's what other people like best.

44:59
David Gilbert
It might be your favorite sandwich place in your neighborhood, it might be your favorite dog park, it may be the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, but it's not necessarily the tourist attractions. And I think too, it's okay to be bold. I think we really like the things we did with the Puppy bowl campaign this year. It was our way to do something national. Some people think looked at, and it wasn't my idea, but when our team came to us and said, what do you think? I know there's a little bit out there, immediately, it was like, that's big, that's bold. That's a little risky. Let's do it. It's our way to get on a national stage. And now that we have all the research behind it worked incredibly well.

45:39
David Gilbert
I mean, all of the scoring in terms of how, every metric we had, in terms of the viewership, the social, all the metrics we had that you used to measure a campaign highly successful. And it was a way for us to be on a national stage, but we had to be able to be a little bold, take some risk. And I think those are things we've learned. It's hard for me to say, here's one campaign that didn't work, but we've learned along the way a couple of major principles that we need to stick with.

46:12
Ashtyn Morris
Wow. So I have one last question for you before I put you in the rapid fire question seat. So, David, what would you tell someone who hasn't bought into the greater Cleveland sports Commission's vision for our city? Why should we be so focused and diligent on bringing more of these types of events to Cleveland?

46:30
David Gilbert
I think the bottom line is, whether you're a sports fan or nothing, two things are critical. A, they just bring in a boatload of money, plain and simple. The ROI for what our organization spends versus the tens of millions of dollars a year it pumps into our economy. But beyond that, just look at the Pride Cleveland has, whether you're a fan of these sports or not. But in hosting NBA all star game and hosting NFL draft, in hosting the women's final four and hosting major league all star, we had all four of those events in a five year period. That's unlike any other city in this country. It didn't happen by accident. We were chosen over many other places because we're a great city.

47:12
David Gilbert
And these big institutions that deal with cities all across the country recognize that and entrusted us with their biggest events. That says something about our community and the pride our community should have in hosting those events.

47:31
Ashtyn Morris
Amazing. Before we conclude today's episode, we always like to end our segment with a round of rapid fire questions. They're Cleveland based. Don't worry. Are you ready?

47:40
David Gilbert
I am ready.

47:41
Ashtyn Morris
All right. Favorite tourist spot in Cleveland?

47:45
David Gilbert
Edgewater Park. I just love it. Amazing place.

47:49
Ashtyn Morris
Beautiful. Stunning. Best sporting event in Cleveland.

47:53
David Gilbert
Ooh. I would say for me, personally, game seven. Of the World Series back against the Cubs. Just amazing.

48:03
Ashtyn Morris
Couldn't beat it.

48:04
David Gilbert
We lost. But the atmosphere was off the charts.

48:08
Ashtyn Morris
Favorite Cleveland sporting venue.

48:13
David Gilbert
I guess I would have to say rock and mortgage field house just because we've hosted so many great events there. And also just being there a lot during the. Boy, it's a tough one because here's the other. Like, in my twenties, the Indians run when progressive field was just open and my wife and I spent a lot more of our money than we should have on season tickets that we didn't really have. And we're there at all these games and it was magical.

48:37
Ashtyn Morris
You're young. That's what you were young then. You were supposed to do. Favorite Cleveland sports moment.

48:44
David Gilbert
Ooh. Has to be for me, Kaz winning the championship. We were downtown having a big watch party at our office and just stayed downtown until two, three in the morning. Watching the streets be flooded with this pride. It was unbelievable.

49:01
Ashtyn Morris
Favorite Cleveland restaurant mmm.

49:05
David Gilbert
Changes a lot. But.

49:10
Ashtyn Morris
Gosh, you can name a few.

49:12
David Gilbert
I have to say one, here's a spot I love. I know it's going a little bit outside restaurant because there's several in there. I love sugar and falls, my favorite little town. It's just, and there's one, a great italian place here, Emma town. Just a great go to. Great outdoor patio. Food's really good, but love just walking around. I think Amba in Ohio City is, the atmosphere is great, the food's great, but it changes a lot. It's thankfully, love experience a lot of different ones.

49:39
Ashtyn Morris
Cleveland has so many good restaurants.

49:41
David Gilbert
Yes.

49:41
Ashtyn Morris
Well, what an episode. David, thank you so much for joining us today. As a Cleveland resident, I really do appreciate all the work that you and your team are doing through destination Cleveland and the Greater Cleveland Sports commission. Where can listeners find you if they want to connect?

49:54
David Gilbert
So best if you go on our website, clevelandsports.org comma. Anyone can reach me through there organization. People who may want to volunteer get involved in lots of different ways. It's all on there. They can look at a schedule of all the upcoming events that we host. Pretty good, thorough website that has everything.

50:13
Ashtyn Morris
Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

50:14
David Gilbert
Thanks, Ashtyn. Thanks for having me.

50:17
Lisa Perry Kovacs
We hope you enjoyed this episode. Now it's time to start making moves. Head to vividfront.com marketingmoves for exclusive marketing materials. Every episode we add more of our greatest insider secrets to help you move towards success. See you next time.