Episode 29: Connecting with Gen Z

00:34
Ashtyn Morris
Welcome to another episode of Marketing Moves. I am your host, Ashton Morris. On today's episode, we are going to discuss all things Gen Z marketing. Gen Z, one of the largest living generations, is markedly different from its predecessors, millennials. As an agency, we are constantly faced with questions on how to best reach and market to Gen Z audiences. As marketing to this demographic group has its own set of unique challenges. Today's guest, Andrew Roth, is CEO of DC DX A Gen Z founded Gen Z research and strategy firm at DC DX, Andrew looks to amplify Gen Z voices and create a world where he and his team brings Gen Z voices to the table. We're thrilled to have him on the podcast today to learn more about all things Gen Z marketing for one of the industry's leaders in the Gen Z space.

01:22
Ashtyn Morris
Andrew, welcome to marketing moves.

01:24
Andrew Roth
Thank you so much. I'm excited to chat with you today.

01:26
Ashtyn Morris
So excited as well. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? What's your story?

01:30
Andrew Roth
Sure. So I am 25, which means I'm on the older end, like you, of the Gen Z. I was literally gonna.

01:37
Ashtyn Morris
Ask, what's your age? Even though I know your age.

01:39
Andrew Roth
Yeah. So 25 people question whether that's in Gen Z, but it is. I like to say it is. And, yeah, so I grew up in Cleveland, grew up in Shaker, and then went to school in Nashville at Vanderbilt University, studied human and organizational development there, which is, like, fancy words for business psychology, I guess you could call it. And then I was supposed to graduate in 2021. Well, I did, but in 2020, something happened, if you remember something, around spring, and I was studying abroad, so I got sent home from London, and at the time, it was obviously chaos everywhere. But one thing that was really clear was this disconnect in culture between organizations and young people. And I think COVID was the start.

02:21
Andrew Roth
COVID was an accelerant of that disconnect, which only was further emphasized by the murder of George Floyd in the Black Lives Matter movement. And it just became very clear that summer that young people's voices were not being heard. I had been doing some web design ish stuff in the past, just in college to make some money on the side. And when I got sent home from London, I figured now's the time to kind of do something about this. Obviously, time was all we had also, and so decided to kind of put a couple things together and thought I'd have a fun summer project. And four years later, actually, four years from yesterday, it was crazy. But four years later, here we are, full company and doing some cool things.

03:04
Ashtyn Morris
That's so exciting. It's so interesting because like you said, we are the same age. I felt very much the same thing of 2020 was a big year in the sense I was set to graduate from Baldwin Wallace in 2021, all good, 4.0, doing all the things. But then 2020 obviously happened, and were on spring break in Florida with my tennis team, and the world shuts down. And 2020 just was crazy in terms of when it came to the point of what should have been my fall semester of my senior year. I realized the world is in chaos. Obviously. There's so much happening, so many lives are being lost. It just was a crazy time to be in that I decided to stay an extra year, use my COVID eligibility at a marketing minor, and then rest was history here at Vivint front.

03:47
Ashtyn Morris
But I think a lot of people can, regardless of what routes they pursue, whatever it may be, 2020 was the time where we all, where things shifted and what you found important to you really changed. So it's crazy, but pretty poetic in a way. Four years later, looking at you now, you've done so much.

04:05
Andrew Roth
Yeah. Thank you. No, but I feel like in that time in particular, I like to think of it as, actually, there's a term I like to think about a lot called the return on luck. And I think bad luck was, like, everywhere, unavoidably at the time. But I think it was for people that did something with that. Like, what was the return on that bad luck? How do you make the most of it? And obviously that's different for different groups of people. And I understand that not everyone had the same chances that I did that you might have, but I think even you here today, like, taking advantage of that extra time going to do that just speaks to kind of, I think, the mentality of a lot of young people in that time of how they approached it.

04:36
Ashtyn Morris
I think Gen Z gets a bad rap sometimes.

04:38
Andrew Roth
Yeah, sometimes.

04:39
Ashtyn Morris
We're definitely going to talk about today. It's a perfect segue to just key themes that we want to really touch on. Like, we've already kind of gotten into. I think it's safe to say that Gen Z is arguably probably one of the most outspoken generations as consumers. Our collective demand, or rather expectation, is for authenticity when it comes to brands in general, but especially advertising. As one of the largest purchasing groups, if you're overlooking Gen Z in your strategy, you are likely missing out on opportunities for your brand or business. Like I said, there's no one better to discuss this with than you. Can you tell us first what DC DX means before we really go into anything else?

05:17
Andrew Roth
Yes. We get this question a lot. It's going to throw you back to your calculus days from high school. I know close years, but it's a reference to dy over dx, which is this notation for a derivative. Except we've replaced Y with c, where c stands for culture. So I'll just say what it means is the rate of cultural change. Everything we do is about how culture is changing and the rate at which it's changing and how that's affecting the mentalities and the behaviors of this generation and the ones to come.

05:44
Ashtyn Morris
Wow.

05:44
Andrew Roth
Yeah.

05:45
Ashtyn Morris
That's great. A little nerdy, no, but that's okay. I didn't want to think about math. But you know what? You put it in a way that makes sense to me. You've already touched on really why you wanted to start your own research and advisory firm. But were there any key moments early on that you were like, this is it. This is what I want to be and should be doing.

06:04
Andrew Roth
I've always been, I think, pretty fascinated by consumer behavior and how, I didn't know if I knew this as marketing at the time, but how, I don't know how organizations functioned, I guess, and how they brought that organization to life in the world. I guess the idea of brand, and I think, again, that summer for me was more of an experiment. I knew nothing at all about the ad industry. I didn't know advertising firms were real. I just thought brands did their own marketing. And I. It was this fun summer project and I think I decided that fall to just take a little bit more time to work on it.

06:39
Andrew Roth
I took off that fall from school and just was like, this is either the time it works or it doesn't, and I'll just go back and finish up school, get a degree and get a job like everyone else does. And towards the end of that fall, right around that time of making decisions, I remember got a DM on Twitter from the vp of marketing at Chipotle.

06:59
Ashtyn Morris
Wow.

06:59
Andrew Roth
And she was like, hey, I saw your research. Looks great. Can we have a chat? So I said, yeah, we can do that.

07:08
Ashtyn Morris
I'll pencil you in.

07:08
Andrew Roth
Yeah, let me look at my calendar first. Yeah. But, yeah, I think for me, that was, like, obviously a very validating moment. And Chipotle went on to be our first kind of major client on that side, but also more of just, like, for someone at that level who I have so much respect for, that, like, would want to listen to young people and, like, want to bring those voices to the table with her and with the company at that scale, I think was really a telling thing and felt very powerful and felt very motivating for me. So that's kind of where the tipping point started.

07:39
Ashtyn Morris
I think a lot of young professionals can relate to the fact that sometimes people that are a little older under seemingly have more experience. Look at us in the sense of, what do you know? Well, we do know a lot. We just. Obviously, we haven't had x number of years of experience, but we can still provide value. So I could imagine, obviously, getting a DM from Chipotle at the very early on inception of DC DX was probably just. I never would stop talking about it. Be like, guys, look at this.

08:04
Andrew Roth
I need to get a frame. That's it.

08:05
Ashtyn Morris
No, you should. How did friends and family initially react to you saying, hey, I want to do this? This is a little project, and then seeing it really just take off?

08:14
Andrew Roth
I've always had a little bit of a bug entrepreneurially. I have a nonprofit that I started in high school as well that kind of. I remember googling how to start a nonprofit, and then a couple months later getting a letter from the IR's saying, congrats, you don't have to pay taxes anymore. So I do. Don't worry. But, yeah, I mean, I think my family and friends always knew I was interested in this stuff, but I think when I took off that fall from school, a lot of money paying for a degree from Vanderbilt, and I think there was a little bit of nerves in the room of, like, go back to school, get your degree, which I did. But I don't know. I think everyone is very supportive, too, especially thinking about that time, like, 2020 fall.

08:57
Andrew Roth
Not like anyone else had any jobs to give me. So they were like, yeah, go for it.

09:03
Ashtyn Morris
And this is my opinion, but you can correct me if I'm wrong. I really think what differentiates Gen Z from other generations is that we've grown up with technology. Obviously, technology has evolved, and depending on the year you were born, your first introduction to technology may look different. Born in 98, someone born a little later. Their first introduction looks different than mine, but collectively, we've had more access than ever to technology. So how do you think, based off of your research, how do you think this access technology has impacted Gen Z's consumer behavior?

09:34
Andrew Roth
Yeah, I mean, it shapes every part of it. Like, that is kind of core to how we think about Gen Z as a research and strategy company. And it's funny, I think there's a terminal that gets talked a lot about with Gen Z called digital natives. It's like another term people refer to Gen Z with, which is true, but I don't think it captures the relationship we have to technology in the right way. It's like we're born alongside it. Yes, but what does that actually mean for our consumer behavior, for our relationship with each other in the world? And we have a study that's now come out in the second version of it. It's called from digital natives to digital captives, how the Internet changed Gen Z.

10:12
Andrew Roth
I think this idea of digital captivity, it's a little dark, so we don't have to go too much into it.

10:16
Ashtyn Morris
Now, but it's real.

10:17
Andrew Roth
It's real, right? It's really real. And I think you look at today, the loneliness and depression and anxiety and the mental health challenges that exist with a generation. And I think there's a lot of stereotypes about young people and, like, toughen up. Right? Like soft gen zers. But, like, it is that exact exposure to technology we had at a young age that's caused that. So it's not like our fault that we're like, this is just the world we've grown into. And so that relationship we have, in that sense, has also shaped everything about how we interact with technology, with brands, with the world around us. It's driving our purchase decisions. It's shaping the marketing. It's every single element of what it means to be a consumer is different for this generation.

11:01
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah, I agree completely. In terms of. And a lot of times, I feel like we just now have the forum to talk about things people have always wanted to talk about but maybe hadn't. And also, it makes us question a little bit, as humans, should we have this much access to the world at all times? I mean, it can be a lot. And there's hard to quiet the noise. You're scrolling on social media, and you see your friend doing all these things, and you start comparing yourself. I think that title really encapsulates it. And even though it's a little dark, it's reality. I mean, you can't fight facts in this case at all. Yeah, it's crazy to think about.

11:35
Andrew Roth
Crazy scary, but a little bit hopeful. I mean, I think there's a lot of things changing, too. The narrative, I think, is starting to shift the other way. The pendulum, I mean, and I think schools are starting to look into how do we, should kids actually have cell phones in their classrooms? What age should we be giving social media to? Obviously, the TikTok ban just passed in Congress, which is more public policy, but also has relations to health and public health.

12:01
Ashtyn Morris
A lot is changing. Kind of touched on this a little bit. But what do you think really distinguishes our consumer behavior as Gen Z versus millennials in terms of purchasing habits or media consumption?

12:13
Andrew Roth
Yeah. So you mentioned one word, authenticity, which I would say is the number one most mentioned word when it comes to Gen Z. So much so that I think it's lost a lot of its meaning. I was at a conference, a Gen Z conference, and we had a tally going 67 times at the conference. They mentioned that one word, which is like 66 times more than any other. But I think what it's trying to say is really core to Gen Z behavior, which is this generation has grown up with access to so much information at a continually changing rate, increasing rate, that how we filter through that has changed.

12:52
Andrew Roth
What authenticity is really trying to say is the way in which young people are processing that information has a different kind of, like, heuristic and different model they go through to figure out what they should be looking at. Right. Like the idea of a traditional advertisement where it's someone selling directly to you. Well, when there's 90 of those that you come across in your TikTok feed every single day, when you're scrolling in the morning, you kind of start to tune those out. And so the idea of authenticity is like, actually finding content, finding things that seem more organic, that seem more human.

13:22
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah.

13:22
Andrew Roth
Right. And that's part of, just to your point earlier, how we've grown up with that exposure.

13:27
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah, I mean, I feel like whenever I'm scrolling on social media, I'm almost in the mindset of looking at, oh, I love that girl's top. Where'd she get it from? Almost in mind, I'm not actively thinking I want to be shopping, but subconsciously I almost am, because when we're scrolling, it's just such a different experience than probably 1015 years ago.

13:46
Andrew Roth
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know. We might talk about this later, but I think we've done a lot of research into this, the marketing funnel, what.

13:53
Ashtyn Morris
Was my next question.

13:54
Andrew Roth
Sorry.

13:54
Ashtyn Morris
No, no, this is perfect. Keep going.

13:56
Andrew Roth
Yeah, no, I mean, like, you know, the traditional idea of the marketing funnel is dead. It doesn't exist anymore because it's a generation that is now being. Living in this constant state of exposure. You can't avoid ads anymore.

14:09
Ashtyn Morris
You can't.

14:09
Andrew Roth
And, like, they're subconsciously in every single element of your lives. From the moment you walk outside and you look up on a billboard to the 7 hours a day you're spending on your phone, where you scroll three stories. You know, we actually have a lot of research that shows, like, young people know exactly how many Instagram stories they have to scroll through before there's an ad. And so they're preemptively knowing that's coming, you know, swiping, so they skip past it. And, like, that's just. I think it's so. It's so representative of what it means to be a Gen Z today.

14:38
Ashtyn Morris
No, I completely agree with that, especially in terms of thinking about the social media platforms we use as Gen Z versus probably millennials and our parents, in the sense of, I do not use Facebook. I have never used Facebook. I'm on TikTok. I'm on Instagram. But if you were to talk to someone probably a little bit older, they might not. They probably don't use TikTok. I mean, I don't want to say everyone, but likely less to use TikTok, maybe use Instagram, but they're probably on Facebook.

15:05
Andrew Roth
Oh, yeah, yeah. Facebook's a scary place.

15:08
Ashtyn Morris
Facebook is somewhere. With that said, how you've been able to, through your research, differentiate older Gen Zers versus younger Gen Zers, because, like we've talked about earlier, we're not a monolith in the sense that we all have different trends and care about different things. So how. What are some of the key differentiators you've been able to pull out of your data?

15:31
Andrew Roth
Yeah, I mean, Gen Z can be kind of cut into so many different segments, whether it's older Gen Z versus younger Gen Z ers or obviously, like, it's a very diverse generation racially, and, you know, hispanic, I think Gen Z makes up 25% of the population. And so it's just. There's so many different ways to look at this generation. And I think when we talk about Gen Z this broadly, it is more of some of the shared characteristics between all of them. But you can find differences between a 14 and a 15 year old and how they've grown up, just because, again, this point of things are changing so quickly that imagine TikTok's gone today.

16:08
Andrew Roth
Well, the 16 year old that just joined, maybe the 15 year old's not gonna have the chance to join, and that's gonna shape how they experience the world as they grow up, too. And so it's just, it's these minor changes in kind of the new features that get launched, the new platforms that come out that shape every single part of who we are. So I know I'm kind of tiptoeing around your question a little bit, but I think it's because it's not necessarily a young versus old Gen Z. It's just talking about Gen Z requires such a nuanced approach to. To every part of it that, like, there are so many audiences that make up who this generation is today.

16:41
Ashtyn Morris
No, that's a key point, because it's not just the age, but where you grew up, socioeconomic factors, there's so much more to it than just saying, oh, broad statement. This is what Gen Z is. So I think that approach that you guys take is really interesting, and something we haven't even gotten into yet is how, with your company, how do you really collect data and analyze it in terms of seeing what Gen Z, their behaviors and preferences are?

17:05
Andrew Roth
Yeah, well, number one, we are Gen Z, so I'm a Gen Z, and our company is entirely Gen Z run.

17:10
Ashtyn Morris
Do they have to be Gen Z?

17:11
Andrew Roth
Legally, no. Legally, no. It may help with the skills required for the job, but no. I mean, I think the other part of that layered on is we have a network that we've built of about 200,000 gen zers that we tap into and work with for research. And we call them our feature human partners, people that are part of our work, that help into shape and provide their voices with the brands we're working with.

17:34
Ashtyn Morris
Nice.

17:34
Andrew Roth
Yeah.

17:35
Ashtyn Morris
On your website, you say you have a Gen Z approach to research. Can you expand upon that a little bit?

17:41
Andrew Roth
Yeah, for sure. So I think one of the reasons, again, the company started was this idea of, I remember sitting in class and getting, like, this 60 question survey, probably more than that 60 question survey that was sent via my email in this really ugly browser that popped up, and they were like, you can't get your final grades until you complete this and rate your professor. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm just clicking, clicking. I'm sorry, professor, whoever that was for, but you probably got some bad things in there. But, like, that we shouldn't be making decisions. And that's just one example of boardrooms, making C suites at Fortune 500 companies are making decisions based off of the responses that come from things like that. And so the question that started was, how do we change that?

18:20
Andrew Roth
How do we actually design research in a way that is authentic to the way young people are communicating? And so our quote unquote Gen Z approach to research involves just, like, being where young people are. So we use Instagram for a lot of our research. We do poll questions on Instagram stories. We do group chats. It's something we love to do, like throwing a bunch of kind of really curated niche gen Zers in a group chat with a company and helping answer questions that way. DM conversations, we'll do pretty much anything that a young person would do. We've done it as a research method. Even making content to see reactions to that. Like, it's just, there's a lot of different ways we tackle it, but it's all about. And they will change, right? Like, that's the thing. That's part of our approach.

19:02
Andrew Roth
Our name, DCDX, is, like, we want to move with how culture is moving and with that change. And so we are always looking at new methods. I mean, we just. I think I was mentioning to you earlier, like, that, the surviving the group chat thing, we came up with it, like, two days ago because it was just, like, something that happened in our lives in a day to day basis. And we just decided, hey, this is a cool way to concept test. And so now we do that. And, like, I think that experimentation is just also part of the changing evolution of the platforms that we're using as well.

19:31
Ashtyn Morris
Have there been some research methods? Obviously, the ones that you continuously use implied that they work well, but for some that haven't resonated well with Gen Z. What were. Do you have any examples of those?

19:41
Andrew Roth
Yeah, I mean, like, surveys.

19:43
Ashtyn Morris
I know surveys.

19:44
Andrew Roth
Definitely focus groups. Like, I think there's. There's a popular consumer insights idea of just focus grouping to death. An idea, like, put an idea in a room in a focus group and people will tear it apart. And I think it's like when you put four or five young Gen Zers on a Zoom call, having some executive talk at them and sharing an idea, it feels like we're back in classrooms and it just turns everyone off immediately. So we've done them and we do them still. We try and spice them up in different ways and try to make it more fun. But I think it's a really challenging idea because also young people are kind of resistant to some of the I think a little more fearful of those interactions and not quite as public in those regards.

20:35
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah, this is going a little off script, but I'm just curious. In terms of, since COVID in 2020 really was a part of your story, how do you think, in your opinion, COVID really impacted Gen Z?

20:48
Andrew Roth
Yeah, I mean, in so many ways. I think the biggest change was less of a change and more of an accelerant. I think we, like so many things that came from COVID that became very clear afterwards were already happening. I just think what COVID did is it took the timeline for it from ten years and put it into one. And so the loneliness and the mental health, it shrunk that timeline significantly, the way in which just, I mean, that was six, eight months a year plus, where were just stuck by ourselves. And I think how much media we consumed shrunk that down. Just everything became accelerated. And so there are many behaviors that I think are more present today because of that, but it's not because they weren't there before. It's just because they didn't have the scale at which we see them today.

21:38
Ashtyn Morris
I agree. I think it really just amplified things were all feeling. But to your point, there wasn't much else to do in terms of everything came out at once. And I think it really. We're still feeling the impacts of COVID especially, too, in the workplace, in terms of how we view work and work life balance. And do you have to come into the office all the time, remote everything, especially for our generation, because we have lived through so much and had so many different experiences that it's hard to really encapsulate what was the catalyst for change. But I feel like 2020 is a. There's a time period that we can all look back and say, yeah, this really shifted the spectrum.

22:15
Andrew Roth
Yeah. And you talked, too, about the differences in ages within Gen Z. Those young people who might have been in high school for COVID are gonna have a totally different life experience than those who were in college or those who just graduated. The social implications of that are tremendous. And, I mean, I lost you, too. The last two years of college, just gone. Right. Well, what is that in 510 years right now? Like, what has that done to us? It's definitely changed how we've interacted and experienced the world. And so. But compare that to a high schooler who didn't get their last two years of high school, didn't go to prom. Those are like foundational life experiences that are gone.

22:54
Ashtyn Morris
It's so sad to think about, but you know, don't want to make this too sad, but what are maybe some surprising or counterintuitive insights you've discovered about Gen Z through your research? And has it aligned with some of your own experiences as being part of Gen Z?

23:12
Andrew Roth
Yeah, that's a good question. I think there's one that we get asked a lot about, which is this paradox of Gen Z. Young people love to make their voices heard when it comes to sustainability and the environment. Climate change is important. It's real, and we're gonna do what we can to fight it. And when they get home from the protests and the rally, they're going on their phones and going to Sheehan and H and M and buying all the fast fashion that they can, and then go and post on Instagram about how much they love the environment. Right. And so it's this paradox between intention and action that we see, not just in fashion, actually, across a lot of different things. It's a situation where two things can be true at once, which feels wrong inherently, but it is true.

23:56
Andrew Roth
And I think it's something that we get asked nonstop about things like that.

24:01
Ashtyn Morris
No, that's where my head was going in terms of wondering where the limits are to some of their values, because there seems to be a bit of dissonance. And what is causing that? I feel like it's hard to sum up, even with all this research. It's just we're people, too. We're very nuanced. Data can give you a lot of signal, but ultimately, we are people. There's a lot of extenuating circumstances that impact our choices of, you care about the environment, you care about ethical work conditions, but let's face it, Shein is very affordable. And for people, I mean, the economy has waxes and wanes, but I think for Gen Z, there's a lot of different factors at hand. Trying to figure out, weighing it.

24:40
Ashtyn Morris
You can do what you can to be more sustainable and helping support brands, but ultimately, your wallet dictates a lot as well.

24:48
Andrew Roth
And there's also a lot of this, which is a life stage thing, that, like any young person, any generation when they were 18 probably would have gone for the cheaper option. Right? Like, it might not. Some of these things don't necessarily have to be a Gen Z versus others. It's just like the life of an.

25:03
Ashtyn Morris
18 year old, the life of an adult making all these decisions for themselves. How do you. How do you ensure that your research remains relevant and up to date? I mean, I know you're continuously evolving your research methods, but how do you determine that? Are you just constantly on social media, constantly leveraging other types of research and data? How do you as a business owner, really keep up with that?

25:27
Andrew Roth
I think it's very helpful to be a member of the generation when, like, a friend sends you an invite for a new app and you're just like, oh, what's this? Versus having to google it as a boomer and trying to figure out what it means to Snapchat someone? Which is probably not the right example for this situation. But yeah, it's just being immersed in listening to culture. Our generation itself, but especially people at our company, are pretty ears open as far as when it comes to new things, emerging new technologies, experimenting with different platforms.

25:59
Ashtyn Morris
What would you say are some of the most popular social platforms for Gen Z?

26:04
Andrew Roth
We talked about TikTok, which hopefully well, may or may not be here in a year. Instagram is huge. So we actually do annual screen time study where we have young people send us recordings of their screen time. And so we get down to the minute details of where young people are spending their time on apps. So we know what you're.

26:27
Ashtyn Morris
Doing.

26:30
Andrew Roth
How it's changing over time. I mean, yeah, TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat are big. Snapchat definitely kind of on the younger side of Gen Z. Discord is a big one. Gaming is huge. So twitch is also part of that equation. You know, newer things which have come and gone, things like be real, and I mean, there's new ones that pop up every day. But YouTube obviously is also a big part of the social or however you entertainment picture.

27:00
Ashtyn Morris
I think a good question to ask people is, do you remember when Instagram was in chronological order and you had to experience the heyday of not being able to see your friend's post when it was posted? And now these algorithms, now you're like.

27:13
Andrew Roth
I don't remember following this person. That's an ad. That's another random person. Where's my friends?

27:18
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah, now at least I like how you can toggle. True, but I always forget to do that.

27:24
Andrew Roth
They kind of do it. They reverse it every couple of weeks. It's like, can't figure it out.

27:28
Ashtyn Morris
I know, because I think the overarching purpose of the app has changed in terms of now it's really an extension of all your marketing, of the sense of ads are running. So the algorithm really favors, I feel, like businesses more so than the casual user, and also too, how people use Instagram has changed so much in terms of photo doms and being a little more authentic, I think people have realized that, you know, maybe less people are seeing my content, less people are liking it. I mean, if you were on Instagram ten years ago, my friends were like, oh, we used to get all these likes, but now people don't see it. Not that likes are the most important things, but just in terms of how people interact with apps is different.

28:06
Ashtyn Morris
And I think Instagram is a really interesting almost case study in that.

28:10
Andrew Roth
Yeah, it has changed so much in how people use it. Like, I actually think there was an article a couple days ago, I think in Business Insider, someone like, a young person saying that posting on Instagram gives them the ick.

28:19
Ashtyn Morris
Now, I saw that. Yeah.

28:21
Andrew Roth
It's like, that's so crazy. But also. Yes. Right. I understand. It makes sense.

28:26
Ashtyn Morris
No, I agree completely. Can you share any success stories? Obviously, Chipotle is a big one. Or case studies where companies have implemented your insights from your research effectively.

28:36
Andrew Roth
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think one of the ones that I love to talk about is hinge, the dating app. For those not familiar, it's like Tinder, but for people who are a little bit more intentional about their dating, they say designed to be deleted. So that's kind of their approach. But we have been working with hinge for a while now, and I think we've been working with them a lot on understanding some of the barriers young people have to connecting. And that's both romantically, but also in friendships. So one thing that we've worked on a lot with Hinge is helping them to implement their new social impact program, which is called one more hour, which is all about helping young people spend one more hour per day in person with other people.

29:18
Andrew Roth
And so I've done a lot of work with them on that. We were part of their phone book, which they launched, which was like, I wish I had it. It literally looks exactly like a phone and feels like a phone came in a box like a phone, except it's filled with pages of activities and things to do with your friends, which is really cool. But, yeah, I mean, we've done a lot of work with them in that space, and they're an awesome team. When we talk about impact and kind of corporations pretending to be something they're not, like they are walking the walk when it comes to what they actually do in the impact space. So it's been a really great partnership.

29:53
Ashtyn Morris
No, that's great. I'm assuming. I don't know, maybe. Maybe I'm wrong and you'll prove me wrong. With people who are coming to you. They obviously value your insights specifically for Gen Z. But have you ever done all the research, put it all together in these reports, and had clients look at you like this is not it? Or have they questioned, really, the research that you've done? Any pushback?

30:15
Andrew Roth
That's a good question. I think that the pushback may not be as much on the research we've done more on. Obviously, research is great, but you need to be able to do something with it. And I think there's a lot of fear in marketing today. A lot of marketers operate from a place of fear when it comes to Gen Z, because so much can go wrong. The risk of being canceled or kind of being the subject of the next Internet sensation in the worst way is real. And I think, again, it's less of, I think, the implications of our work, but more of actually taking that step into putting it in action, which is a scary thing, because Gen Zers have notoriously been out there after brands when they do something they don't like.

31:01
Andrew Roth
And I think it's a challenging, like, it's a challenging environment to work through as a brand and an operator, because I think obviously you have your audience that you want to protect and you want to, but you also, at some point, need to take risks, and some of those risks can be informed and data driven. And I think a lot of older generations have a harder time understanding why these changes are happening and why young people want to see the different perspectives on issues or want you to talk out about your impact, or want you to talk about the environment. And so, yeah, I think that's probably a big challenge that we come up against, the inertia to actually go out and overcome and put something out there that makes sense.

31:40
Ashtyn Morris
It'd be interesting. Do you ever have people maybe reach out to you, maybe not necessarily wanting to work with you, but just almost putting you in the hot seat a little bit in terms of why do you think this is valuable? What can we actually do with this? Or does that kind of fold into your response?

31:56
Andrew Roth
Yeah, for sure. Pushback comes at all stages. Definitely came more in the early stages, too, I think. But at the end of the day, there is a true need right now to understand young people, and they can say that, but they can also then be back in the same spot they're in, which is like this dissonance. And there are not many organizations that can actually help just to translate what is happening in culture from a Gen Z perspective into what it means to be a CMO and how that comes to life. And I think so, yeah. Like, I don't know. We get the pushback and there are the more very traditional advertisers and marketers who will only trust a survey to tell them what to do, which I understand too.

32:40
Andrew Roth
Like, that's how they've grown up, just as we've grown up in this way, that's how they've grown up. And so it makes sense. But again, like, that's also what separates the good from the great. That's what makes AAA what it is today. Right? That's what makes change what it is today. That's what makes these brands so great today and so relevant is because they've embraced that change.

32:55
Ashtyn Morris
I love that. Well, last question before I hit you with some rapid firewalls.

32:59
Andrew Roth
Oh, gosh. Okay.

33:00
Ashtyn Morris
This is going to be a good one. What advice would you give brands looking to appeal more to Gen Z with their marketing strategy?

33:09
Andrew Roth
Bring them in to the conversation. There's a lot of. One of the buzzwords of last year which just kind of bled into this year's community, and it's based on this real idea of young people want to be heard and listened to. And I think now more than ever, especially in this hyper capitalistic world, that young people are feeling a lot. We want to feel like we are part of the decisions that are happening, part of the conversation, helping to actually shape the future of your brand. And it's not hard. Right? Like, the only hard part is the emotional element of it, which is like, I'm not in my decision is not the decision anymore. It's the decision of my community. But those are the people who are buying and helping you be in the spot you're in today.

33:50
Andrew Roth
And so it's to listen and it's to invite that in because that's what's going to ultimately help to push your brand forward.

33:58
Ashtyn Morris
And you can help with that, so.

34:00
Andrew Roth
Exactly.

34:01
Ashtyn Morris
That's great. All right, so I'm going to hit you with these questions.

34:03
Andrew Roth
All right, I'm ready. Perfect.

34:05
Ashtyn Morris
All right. I promise I'm not. They're easy.

34:08
Andrew Roth
Okay.

34:09
Ashtyn Morris
Favorite social media platform?

34:12
Andrew Roth
You said easy. Instagram. I hate it, but I love it.

34:15
Ashtyn Morris
Same. Yeah. This one might be hard to sum up in just one, so you can name off a few, but what brands do you think appeal really well to Gen Z?

34:25
Andrew Roth
I think Spotify does a great job. Spotify wrapped is like the cultural moment of the year.

34:29
Ashtyn Morris
We love it here.

34:31
Andrew Roth
It's a holiday. Yeah, they do a great job. I mean, I'll plug some clients just because I think they do great. Chipotle and Hinga are also doing really great. There's also smaller brands that I think are doing great. Rare beauty is one that I've been looking a lot at for their impact and their approach to marketing to Gen Z. Dove, I think, also does a great job with more of an impact driven lens on it. So, yeah, those are a few.

34:55
Ashtyn Morris
Love that we already talked about this a little bit earlier, but do you actually think TikTok will be going away?

35:01
Andrew Roth
I didn't, but the way their policy team has been responding to this is starting to make me think they won't sell. So, yeah, I think it's real.

35:14
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah. I feel like we've been talking about this for a while. Will TikTok be here? Will it not be? And I feel like we're actually getting.

35:20
Andrew Roth
Closer to every day it's a little closer, and finally we're gonna wake up, and it's gonna be gone, so.

35:25
Ashtyn Morris
Yeah. Well, okay, final two questions. These are a little more Cleveland focused. We like to plug Cleveland whenever we can. What is your go to restaurant in Cleveland?

35:34
Andrew Roth
Ooh. I mean, for, like, I love Dave's, like, cosmic subs. Oh, we're sandwiched. It's not a restaurant, I guess. Just like, I will eat that nonstop. Yeah. Does that count?

35:49
Ashtyn Morris
That can count. Your rapid fire answer came top of mine. Last one. Favorite coffee shop.

35:56
Andrew Roth
Oh, that one. I was ready for Lekko.

35:58
Ashtyn Morris
Leko's great.

35:58
Andrew Roth
Leko's amazing.

35:59
Ashtyn Morris
Leco's great.

36:00
Andrew Roth
Love Leco.

36:00
Ashtyn Morris
I love it. All right, well, that about does it for us today. Andrew, thank you so much for your time today. As a marketer and Gen Z, or myself, your insights were incredibly eye opening, and I'm sure so many people have taken so many value takeaways from this episode. Where can listeners find you if they want to connect?

36:17
Andrew Roth
Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, which is my name. Andrew Roth. You can also learn more about what we do at DCDX Co. Reach me at AndrewcDX Co. And always happy to chat. And, yeah, just reach out. I love talking about Gen Z. Love thinking about new and cool things. So if you disagree with everything I said, we'd love to hear it, and we'd love to talk about it, because that's what we do, is just bring young people into the conversation.

36:40
Ashtyn Morris
Can people apply to be ambassadors, too?

36:42
Andrew Roth
Yeah. Yeah. Join our. If you're Gen Z, you're listening. Like, join our research. We pay everyone who's involved and would love to get your voice represented for some of the brands we're working with.

36:50
Ashtyn Morris
Love that.

36:51
Andrew Roth
Yeah.

36:52
Ashtyn Morris
Well, thank you so much. I can't wait for this one to drop. Yeah, it's gonna be a good one.

36:56
Andrew Roth
I'm hyped. Thank you so much for having me.

36:58
Ashtyn Morris
Of course.

37:00
Lisa Perry Kovacs
We hope you enjoyed this episode. Now it's time to start making moves. Head to vividfront.com.com marketingmoves for exclusive marketing materials. Every episode, we add more of our greatest insider secrets to help you move towards success. See you next time.